There are numerous other ways to quantify power in our sufferers and athletes, from isometric testing, to repetition max testing, to velocity-based coaching, and even power plates.
To be trustworthy, RM% is cumbersome and generally not even acceptable.
Right here’s how we measure power in our athletes at Champion.
To view extra episodes, subscribe, and ask your questions, go to mikereinold.com/askmikereinold.
#AskMikeReinold Episode 260: The best way to Consider Power in Athletes
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Present Notes
Transcript
Scholar:
Our first query is from Terry, from Wisconsin. Hello Champion group. I used to be questioning the way you consider the power of your athletes at Champion. I do know that there are some choices like dynamometer testing, isometric checks, repetition max testing, velocity primarily based testing, and compelled plate beta. What do you employ and why?
Mike Reinold:
Superior. All proper. Nice query, Terry. I preferred that. And I feel this can be a fairly huge matter these days. I simply suppose as expertise is beginning to turn out to be a bit of bit extra prevalent and I feel all of our professions, or each career. Then I feel individuals are making an attempt to all the time discover new methods to quantify power. Again within the day, it was a big, isokinetic testing machine, which was wonderful. After which it had quite a lot of actually cool features to it, however there’s bought to be different and higher methods, however I like how Terry included all kinds of issues right here. And I feel he, or she, I’m not one hundred percent positive, I feel they have been very holistic with this on all of the totally different ways in which you are able to do this.
Mike Reinold:
And I like how there’s isometrics, there’s rep max, there’s velocity primarily based. I feel that this was a extremely good query. So I don’t know. I don’t know, Diwesh, why don’t you begin with type of the place we’re at. Possibly we are able to speak about a bit of bit about another issues that we’re working in the direction of or one thing, however what are we doing with our athletes right here? So, thoughts you, that is from Diwesh’s perspective. That is going to be from our wholesome athletes and our efficiency type of realm. Possibly we speak about rehab in the direction of the top, however Diwesh, what do you suppose?
Diwesh Poudyal:
Yeah. So for our efficiency aspect of issues, after we get an athlete into the constructing, initially, we have a tendency to have a look at a bit of bit extra of their energy output numbers in several planes. We take a look at their velocity acceleration stuff. We do do some velocity… Or power testing if we really feel just like the athlete qualifies for it. So one in all our simple methods to do it’s really utilizing VVT, so we use a health club conscious machine. And the rationale that we use that’s we attempt to gauge an thought of the place they fall on the force-velocity profile. We’re making an attempt to attempt to get an perception into, is an athlete actually quick, however perhaps a bit of bit weaker? Or are they actually, actually sturdy, however perhaps a bit of bit slower? So we use a velocity profile testing initially after we get them in by the door.
Diwesh Poudyal:
As they begin coaching with us a bit of bit extra all through the course of the months, we do replace their power testing numbers. So we’ll have them work out to love a 5 rep max on quite a lot of our main actions like squat, deadlift, lunge, press, row, issues of that nature. So we’ll keep watch over how they’re progressing on all their power stuff for the massive actions that we put a ton of worth in, however we additionally do discover quite a lot of use in velocity primarily based testing to get an perception into their force-velocity curve. Now stuff that we’re engaged on in the direction of the longer term. I feel we’re beginning to suppose a bit of bit about power plate, perhaps probably using a number of the fancier tech that’s on the market to get even higher perception into somebody. So we are able to have even a extra personalized strategy for our coaching and actually affect a number of the particular nature of our qualities that we’re making an attempt to construct in our athletes. In order that’s type of the place we’re at proper now.
Mike Reinold:
Yeah, and I feel the rationale why we began this type of evolution a bit of bit is historically like rep max is… There’s quite a lot of negatives to rep max. In case your coaching age is low, you then’re going to query the validity of how a lot he bought out of that rep max session. It takes time. You don’t need to do this on day one with lots of people. That’s actually difficult and time consuming kind factor.
Mike Reinold:
So with power plates now, I feel power plates began extra… And this can be a common remark, however power plates began extra with bounce testing and energy open stuff, however I feel now we’re utilizing them fairly a bit extra for isometric testing and to do totally different testing positions which I feel is absolutely neat. However man, it’s a lot simpler to simply stroll as much as a power plate and do one rep and see what you get with that isometric, like mid-thigh pull or one thing, for instance, versus really going by a 5 rep max sequence. That’s fairly, that’s fairly daunting for plenty of causes. So I actually like what we’re doing. I like how Diwesh and Jonah, one in all our different power coaches, have actually taken the lead on making an attempt to make use of a few of this newer expertise behind this.
Mike Reinold:
One factor I feel I might add simply by way of speaking a bit of bit concerning the why behind our power testing too, is that rep max testing is awkward, however for us, we consider simply monitoring their regular coaching as additionally testing. So there’s methods you are able to do equations, and what we attempt to do is in the direction of the top of various phases with our athletes, we’ll simply file what number of units, reps, and weights did they use? After which we are able to make that standardized rep max equation simply to type of observe folks. In order that method there’s no testing, we’re not testing their power. We’re virtually simply monitoring their efficiency of their power workout routines by their program. Did I say that nicely, Diwesh? Ought to I hack any of that up?
Diwesh Poudyal:
No, no, I feel you stated that nicely. We push an athlete, let’s say like week 5 of their coaching program, we’d push them a bit of bit tougher, but it surely’s not like, “Hey, go max effort and attempt to raise as a lot weight as humanly attainable with that kind.” We’re saying, “Choose a weight that’s actually difficult in order that we all know that you’ve got this X quantity much less within the tank.” However yeah, we’re not actually in working anybody as much as one rep max or perhaps a three rep max. We attempt to make it possible for children are coaching exhausting and getting stronger. And we have now that power and power bucket beginning to be stuffed, as a result of we all know that’s an vital a part of their growth, however we additionally take simply as a lot delight within the velocity testing and the force-velocity profile that we’re type of construct out from these athletes. After which hopefully after we do get a power plate, we are able to get much more perception into serving to our athletes get higher outcomes as a result of we all know extra about them and what they want.
Mike Reinold:
To me, it’s about impactful testing. We don’t take a look at simply to check. It’s impactful testing. So I like that. So simply to be complete along with your query, Terry, however that’s type of our total, common power. Now within the rehab setting, Lenny, perhaps you possibly can bounce in. You’re essentially the most skilled with this type of stuff. Why don’t you clarify a bit of bit, what can we do in a different way between our athletes which are wholesome, that we’re simply trying to develop a power profile, and what can we do to attempt to particularly determine power deficits in any individual that’s getting back from an harm or surgical procedure?
Lenny Macrina:
Yeah. We use it a bunch. I do know, even for Mike Scaduto, I really feel like on a regular basis he’s power testing, quite a few, quite a few folks, yelling at them to push tougher, however we do quite a bit for our overhead athletes. We’re on the lookout for apparent power deficits, particularly of their posterior cuffs. So we’ll put them… Attempt a few ratios of ER to IR and a ratio there. We ideally like about 65%, 67% of a power ratio of the exterior rotators to inner rotators. So we’ll simply… We’ll persistently monitor that in our athletes, particularly after they begin the throwing… to start a throwing program.
Lenny Macrina:
After say a Tommy John, after which after a time, after they begin a throwing program perhaps each month or so, we’re monitoring their power to see how they’re progressing or regressing. I exploit it quite a bit as nicely in my ACL’s. So I exploit it, a hand-held dynamometer, identical to we simply talked about for the higher our bodies and quite a bit for a decrease physique too, to measure quad power, particularly. I’ll do some hamstring testing as nicely. It’s not as, I don’t know, I assume particular for me, however I’m actually centered on the quads. We all know that’s the first focus of ACL rehab. So I’ll do a symmetric quad power take a look at at 70, above 70 levels of knee flection. And I had them kick right into a belt that’s being strengthened onto the desk. So I’m not holding the hand-held dynamometer. I don’t suppose that’s a great way of doing it. I desire the opposite method. I feel Terry Grindstaff has printed a paper in IJSPT about that if you happen to’re .
Mike Reinold:
And simply to make clear, Len, on your higher extremity and stuff, you’re speaking about utilizing a hand-held dynamometer to quantify that power.
Lenny Macrina:
hand-held dynamometer. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone’s going to ask, Microfet, Lafayette. There’s a bunch of recent ones on the market too which are good. We nonetheless have the Lafayette unit that we purchased a number of years in the past, however there are different nice ones on the market that we’re type of .
Mike Reinold:
We’re making an attempt some new ones. And I don’t know. I don’t know in the event that they’re… I don’t know in the event that they’re successful the race but. I don’t know that the newer, cheaper fashions… I don’t suppose we’ve felt comfy with their outcomes simply but, however we’re going to maintain enjoying with these. However yeah, positively Lafayette or Microfet are the 2 leaders. However Dave, what do you bought?
Dave Tilley:
Simply wished to throw in that I’ve been doing quite a bit with the hip too, for a similar dynamometry stuff. There’s quite a lot of analysis Mike’s course. And I used that a few folks submit labor repairs and submit PAOs and had some actually good outcomes, however identical type of thought of belt fixation. Standardize it. I might say it’s simpler. Positively if use your hand for ER and IR after they’re sitting on the desk, to make use of the belt on the ER/IR could be very robust, so you possibly can simply stabilize towards your personal and it doesn’t budge a lot. In order that’s my two cents.
Lenny Macrina:
I feel simply so folks know, for us, the way in which I exploit it a minimum of, it’s not a break take a look at. It’s a make take a look at. So I’m not making an attempt to have them break my quantity of power that I’m producing. It’s not like a handbook muscle take a look at. I’m type of making a wall and having them push into this wall, which the hand-held dynamometer is on the top of it, if I’m measuring like exterior rotation. So once more, it’s how a lot power can they produce? Not how a lot power can I break them?
Mike Reinold:
Yeah, which is humorous as a result of we’ve gotten into some attention-grabbing debates with different good friend, researchers of us that swear that if you happen to’re utilizing a make take a look at, it’s not legitimate. And I feel… I nonetheless swear if you happen to’re utilizing a brake take a look at it’s not legitimate. So I don’t know what meaning. I don’t know. I imply, to me, I simply need to see how a lot power they’ll produce, not how a lot power I can push into them. And we’ve had conditions up to now the place we’ve had different bodily therapists we work with doing hand-held dynamometer, they get actually constant at pushing the identical quantity of power and the numbers simply the identical each time and also you’re like, “How can that occur?” That’s actually ironic that each quantity in each route is strictly the identical.
Mike Reinold:
So yeah. I imply, there’s a studying curve, and simply to reply Terry’s query, how we consider power, there’s a studying curve to hand-held dynamometry. And I simply hold that going. I bought to make an interior circle video on that. That truly simply type of jogs my memory of just like the nuances of that, as a result of that is without doubt one of the tougher issues that we train anyone. And I inform all people, “Your information for a 12 months goes to be ineffective.” And hopefully lower than that, but it surely’s really easy to do this poorly if you happen to don’t have the precise approach. I feel the one different particular person I feel I’d ask… I’m simply type of curious. Dan, are we lacking something? Like do you do any particular power testing for an athlete that’s particular to their sport or occasion? I really feel such as you’d be a superb particular person to reply that, something we missed?
Dan Pope:
It’s humorous as a result of I used to be nearly to notice on that. I do just like the hand-held dynamometers quite a bit. I’ve been messing round with quite a lot of Achilles sufferers not too long ago. And I feel one of many issues you’ll see is that they’ll have fairly comparable power numbers, however you then ask them to do like a standing calf increase and we’ll do like 35 on one aspect and so they received’t have the ability to get full vary of movement on the opposite.
Dan Pope:
So I do suppose that it’s useful to attempt to get extra particular and purposeful after some time. Like verify off that… verify the field off of hand-held dynamometer has fairly good symmetry. A minimum of for me, I work quite a lot of barbell athletes. So I’ll do one thing like, let’s press overhead with a dumbbell on one aspect, see what number of reps you may get, after which strive the identical factor on the opposite aspect and see if a few of these power numbers from the dynamometers are carrying over to the extra purposeful actions. As a result of in my thoughts, we need to get these particular muscular tissues stronger, however does that carry into the massive perform that the affected person is making an attempt to get again to? So I do like making an attempt to get again to a number of the rep max stuff finally, and making an attempt to iron out any of those asymmetries within the particular planes of movement. So overhead urgent or head pulling or horizontal pushing, urgent that kind of factor. And simply ensuring that we’re getting sturdy from all angles for the actions that the athlete needs to get again to.
Mike Reinold:
I prefer it. I prefer it. And there’s all the time going to be a mix between like tech and science and really feel, that type of factor. I hate to say that, however as you get extra skilled, you’ll positively get a greater vibe. I feel Dan does a extremely good job of taking the target information that he will get after which combining it with what he sees in the course of the efficiency of an train. I feel that’s a reasonably neat combo. That takes some expertise to develop that scientific judgment, so. Superior. Nice stuff, Terry. I feel that was a wonderful query, Terry. Hopefully we type of nailed it from a number of totally different features. I feel there’s quite a lot of good methods to go about what we do there. So hopefully that was useful. Thanks once more for the query. In case you have one thing like that, once more, head to mikereinold.com, click on on that podcast hyperlink, and remember to head to iTunes, Spotify. Charge, overview, subscribe, and we’ll hold doing these episodes for you. So thanks a lot.
